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Back Pain and ORMUS

Back Log!

I theorize that a lifetime of over-prescription of antibiotics caused an extreme overgrowth of various fungi in my body, along with antibiotic-resistant bacteria and possibly nanobacteria, coupled with many injuries** and weather exposure in the construction trade, all of which led to a near total physical meltdown by age 45 (4 years ago). I know I harbored a wicked strain of bacteria in my sinuses that were sooner or later going to kill me after all the antibiotics failed. I was getting real close. I have beaten back every single ailment (lots!) save 3 since then with the alternative therapies I mentioned earlier. Now as to my reasons for taking M-state:

The three conditions that remain, in order of severity are:

1. Degenerative Disk Disease that has resulted in Disk degradation and stenosis in the Lumbar area. I am physically strong but with a terrifically weak back. It's like a good house on a crumbling foundation.

2. Cervical disk ruptures, degradation and stenosis from a head & neck injury many years ago. Between 1&2, I'm about 1-1/2" shorter than I was at 18.

3. Tinnitus from ear damage caused by the failure of conventional medicine to control chronic sinusitis despite extreme amounts of prescribed antibiotics and antihistamines.

I am presently taking an M-state preparation from a producer member of this list in the hopes of repairing some or all of this damage. As regards condition 1, something is happening, something is most definitely happening, and appears to be good. As regards #2, something just might be happening, not real sure yet. As regards #3, nothing yet, but I swear I think I heard the HU one morning recently. All of my experiments and experiences with alternatives have brought about unexpected pleasant benefits, usually not at all what I had in mind, but sometimes with some pain of healing crisis.

The healing crisis part is what causes me to say that something is definitely happening with #1, because I've had some initially painful movement in an unexpected place in my spine, but that has now settled down. Something sort of like what Hank reported. There has been other movement that was quite pleasant and surprising. This has all happened in the past 6-8 weeks since I started taking the preparation. There have been two really big and pleasant surprises. The first is the return of mental FOCUS, will, direction and drive. It's like when I was 30-40; lead, follow, or get out of my way. I was quite a force on a job in those days. This is like having all of that again, except now with the restraint of maturity (hmm... wonder what my Bride will say about that).

The second thing was what happened to my lungs. I smoked for 18 years, age 16-34; I worked in commercial built-up roofing for many years and breathed an enormous amount of smoke. When I quit smoking ('89) I never had that six-months-later-clearing-of-the-bronchial-tubes-effect that you're supposed to get. After a few days on this preparation, I began to feel as if I had taken a bronchial-dilator such as ephedrine or MaHuang. It's an opening of the bronchial tubes that makes you breathe more easily, and it feels cool down into your lungs. Over the course of many days, a few weeks even, this cool feeling kept migrating higher in my lungs, then to my throat. By this time I was beginning to clear my throat often, but there never was any phlegm. That throat clearing abated after several days.

The cool feeling rose up into the back of my throat, then into my mouth and nasal passages, finally out to my nose and the front of my tongue and inside my lips. It has now left my nose, throat and lungs, but lingers at the front of my mouth, slowly ebbing now for many days. A couple of years ago I was injured and had numerous X-rays, MRIs, an arteriogram, and a myelogram. I do not have anything wrong whatsoever showing in my lungs, so I know it wasn't cancer leaving me. Instead, I suspect it had to do with restoring the bronchial cilia to a properly performing state. Lastly, shortly after starting this, I had two very clear and lucid dreams that will stick with me for life, because they both showed me something about the direction of my life. I almost forgot. Something else surprising and unexpected happened from using the M-state preparation.

Background: Nearly two years ago a particularly acute ailment eruption led me to begin experimenting with Beck Blood Electrification. I use the term experiment loosely. In the beginning it was just total desperate blind bumbling. I did everything wrong. I was trying to kill off a severe case of Lichen Planus on my legs. For brevity's sake, I'm leaving out a lot here. I finally got a handle on both the therapy and the disease, but not before I had killed large patches of leg hair follicles with my bumbling misuse of the therapy. So I walked around all last summer showing big bald spots on my legs. This past winter, my jeans sometimes chafed those spots. Starting just a very few weeks ago, I've got hair growing in, thick enough so that I will soon be unable to tell where the bald spots were.

All for now,

Daddybob

Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 07:56:36 -0700 (PDT)

From: daddybob

Subject: More Healing #1

7-8-03

This is an addendum to my results which have been posted on Barry's site. Barry has my permission to post this there. Anyone reading this on Barry's site can click on "Daddybob" at the top and get my Yahoo! email to ask me questions. I have intentionally left off the name of the product and producer of it on this post for legal reasons. Email me privately and I'll tell you who & what it is.

Background: My lumbar area which has caused me terrific pain for many years, has always had to be "stretched" back into place, sometimes 3-4 times a day. I have done this for many years by laying on the bed, a table, or in the back of a pickup truck on my back, hanging my knees at the edge, sometimes swinging my lower legs forcefully, until my lumbar or pelvis would go back in place.

Sometimes this has been a very stress-relieving exercise, other times it has been an exercise in screaming terror. Sometimes the movement is sublime, sometimes it is traumatic. Sometimes a mild squishy feeling, sometimes a jarring jolt. No Doctor I have ever seen, Chiropractor, Ortho-Surgeon, or Neuro-Surgeon, has been able to figure out exactly what was going on. All I know is that it kept me walking and functioning.

A few weeks after beginning to take the M-state product, I bent over fast at work one day and "pulled" my back, like a thousand times before, but this time it was different. This time the injury was in a new place, at least one joint, maybe two, above the usual place. After that, when I would do my "exercise" described above, the "stretching" that would occur was at this new place, with little movement at the old location. It was quite a different sensation, but I put up with it and forged on. Now I'm nearly finished with my second bottle of product, having taken it over the course of about 3 months.

For the past two weeks I've tried to "stretch" my lumbar in the time-tested manner, but there is no jolting, jarring movement. There is also no pain of compression with which I've become so familiar- that subliminal pain that would tell me to get somewhere quick and stretch my back before I had to be carried around again on a sure-enough stretcher (it has happened!). The next result refers to another exercise I've done for years- a deep bend-over from the waist to cause my thoracic area to loosen up, accompanied often by several jarring pops in my spine.

This traumatic popping has now turned into a much softer more fluid movement. I've had to do this for years to unlock my thoracic area so I could breathe freely. This is from falling about 10'-12' over a railroad track when I was 18. When I turn over in bed at night, or if I'm laying down and get up, I often now have a nice soft fluid-feeling movement of my spine from shoulders to pelvis. It feels absolutely wonderful. My neck is "snapping" less. I will post more when I have more results there.

That brings up the last subject. Notice that I said "when I have more results". I remarked to my wife last night that all of this is really quite nearly miraculous, yet I have experienced so much healing in the last 4 years that I have come to expect it, and don't feel at all surprised anymore when something good happens. I think for some reason it is important that I say that here and now. I have often read- in connection with "ORMUS", that it is important to believe something good will happen. Funny, I never really was one to think that way, but now it's as if I always did.

Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:22:32 -0700 (PDT)

From: daddybob

Subject: reply to several people

7/17/2003

This is a reply to all the folks who've been emailing me for information on the M-state product I'm taking and the results I'm getting. OK everybody I'm back. I've been really busy, and I decided to wait until the private emails slowed down asking for details. About those private emails: I put that on Barry Carter's website, along with only my e-handle, not my real identity, so that he couldn't be attacked by any government agency for posting testimonials; also, to shield my supplier from the same possible scrutiny.

Another reason I waited so long, about a week now, is to make absolutely sure that this benefit is still holding out, and yes, it is! In the past week, since I posted on several forums, I have deliberately done things that I knew to be tough on me in order to see if my lumbar/pelvis would succumb to that same old compression, pain, then decompression of my "exercise" as I described it.

You be the judge:

During the entirety of what I'm about to describe here, I have still stopped and stretched myself with my knees off the edge of the bed at least twice a day to see if my back or pelvis would move, and if I felt any decompression take place. It hasn't happened. At my work, I'm forever climbing ladders and stairs. In addition to my work, I ride a bike quite often. I just bought a Needak rebounder, and have bounced on it quite a bit recently. That's what started this scrutiny of my results. I had been considering a rebounder purchase for months, but was afraid it would hurt my back. More about that later.

With all the rest of my busy life this week, I took two long trips, solo. Driving is what had gotten to be the one of the worst things I could do. I drove 320 miles round trip Sunday in an old Honda Accord, to examine and bring home some volcanic rock from a place that few people know about in central NC. Volcanic deposits are supposedly rich in these elements. When there, I hiked in about a half mile, down to a riverbank, clambered all over those rocks for about an hour, then packed out about 50 pounds in a backpack, then drove home.

Tuesday I drove 462 miles round trip in my ton Ford Van. I went to get a magnetic water trap and several barrels to test my well water for these elements. Wednesday I drove that van about 100 miles round trip for business supplies. Wednesday night (last night), just before bed I tried a new exercise on my rebounder. Three months ago, there is NO WAY that I could have done what I'm now going to describe. I sat down on the rebounder, picked up my feet off the floor, reclined my torso to balance my legs, then held out a 3 pound set of Dumbbells, straight out to my side, and curled my arms up and down slightly to make my butt bounce a bit on the rebounder.

Let me tell you this works your entire body real fast, really tightening your abs, and puts tremendous pressure on your low back. It never hurt a bit and was extremely invigorating. My back did not compress. There was no back pain at all. There certainly was plenty of muscle "burn" from that exercise. This morning I'm up and at 'em, just like always, but pain free. This is great. OK- I got my stuff from Don Nance of www.oceanalchemy.com. Don is moving and is out of production for a while, but thinks he can still supply new orders from stock for about 2 weeks. You have to order from his website. You can't reach him now, and won't be able to for at least 2 weeks, maybe more. My suggestion is to order his "Elixir of Life" first.

Take it first thing upon waking. Start out with only a half-eyedropper full, for maybe a few days, then work up to perhaps 2-3 dropperfuls once or twice a day, a few hours after eating, and at least 30 minutes before eating. Then move up to the "White Dove", which is much stronger, and does the real healing. Do not rush this process, and do expect side effects. Read what I experienced again on Barry's site. As with many other alternatives, you could get kidney pain from pathogen die-off. Stop taking anything when that happens and drink plenty of non-chlorinated water. You should only be drinking non-chlorinated, non-flouridated water anyway. NEVER ignore kidney pain, and let it be your guide to use and dosage. Lastly, take little or no MSM, or any sulfate supplement while doing this. Sulfur is thought to negate the M-state elements. I have taken a very small amount once while doing this.

I found that while taking M-state, the action of MSM, when needed to relieve sore muscles, was MUCH faster, with MUCH less needed. I feel assured my quick results came because I had gotten my body so disease free before I started this. I am sure that others will NOT get the kind of quick results I got without some complications and healing crises that must take place first. After all, it went after my lungs and bronchial tubes first, healing something that I had no idea was a problem. Now back to that rebounder: First, I still am awaiting more healing, in my neck especially. I still have crepitation in my neck, and it still needs strengthening. I overdid the vertical bouncing on the rebounder a few days ago, thinking I was capable, when I'm clearly not, because it hurt my neck. I'm having very positive results, yes, but there is still more to do.

Here is a link to other suppliers:

http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/faq.htm#2

Daddybob

Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 19:21:13 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: fingernails

One of many former maladies was a dead split in my right index fingernail, from so much fungus, I suppose. It became a real sore spot for me, since I'm right handed and work in construction. A split into the "quick" is no fun at all, especially when it doesn't heal. I would have to trim the nail way back, and cover it with a Band-Aid, keeping it trimmed and protected, until the split grew out. Any little snag would start the whole thing over again.

This got better several months ago when I found out that I am a near extreme protein eater, and changed my diet accordingly, but I still had to be careful with that nail. Since taking the "White Dove", my nails have grown so fast I can scarcely find time to trim them. They have become much stronger. A couple of days ago I had let them grow out too much and I snagged that nail on something. It turned backwards enough to leave a crease mark in it, but it did NOT split!

Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2003 08:51:43 -0700 (PDT)

From: Daddybob

Subject: update on my back

8/22/2003

From Daddybob, Update on my back (Barry- this is for posting on the site).

I've had so many requests for information that I must write up this synopsis and pass it on. If you read this on Barry's site, some of it may be redundant. In the past 2 months I have literally tried to hurt my back. OK well, I didn't do anything too stupid, but- I really have pushed myself and done things that I have not been capable of for years. More later, first. In the past four years- since the beginning of my miracle in July of '99- I have had several short instances of strength and endurance that gave me great hope. But every time I did something that remarkably improved my health and energy, I would use up all that energy trying to catch up on life. Always, my back would eventually fail me. By early this year, I was convinced that I had killed off everything that was ailing me. Only my back- in its damaged condition- was holding me back. I had so much energy that I was constantly overdoing things and hurting my back.

For the record I have had a diagnosis of Degenerative Disk Disease and Ankylosing Spondylitis, ruptured disks and near critical cervical stenosis at C3-C4 & C4-C5, ruptured disks and stenosis at L4-L5, and as my neurosurgeon put it, "everything below there is pretty rotten". My neurosurgeon was bug-eyed at my lack of pain and range of motion. At the time I was controlling it all with MSM, Glucosamine Sulfate, Cetyl Myristoleate and LOTS of water (I am not now taking MSM or GS, still take a little CM and drink lots of water). He was a good honest thoughtful man. He did not argue with me or try to intimidate me. He suggested no surgery for my low back since it was far past a simple disk trimming. He described Lumbar Diskectomy as a "Hog-Killin'", (a graphic description that many rural people over the age of 40 know something about) and told me it would put me out of work for 3-6 months.

He was much more concerned over my neck, despite the fact that it is much less painful to me than my lumbar. He warned- gently yet firmly- that I was in danger of partial or total paralysis or death from a fall or mild auto accident. This got my attention because I'm a roofing contractor and I drive a lot. He suggested a double cervical diskectomy & fusion, and described my loss of neck movement as being 7-1/2% per disk, total of 15%. I had a friend who had lumbar stenosis surgery, but I don't think he had an actual diskectomy and fusion. I've always heard never let anyone but a neurosurgeon near your spine, never an ortho-surgeon. I don't know if all that's so or not, but my friend went with an ortho-surgeon. His life was hell for six months after that surgery, then one day he fell, paralyzed, in his home alone, couldn't get to the phone, and it was 2 days before someone checked on him. By that time he had lost some circulation and had infections. He died a few weeks later. Lumbar surgery for me? Thanks, but no thanks.

Another friend had cervical diskectomy and told me the loss of motion was more realistically like 15% per disk. I spent several days driving around limiting my neck motion in many different traffic situations. I came to the conclusion that the law of "risk homeostasis" would prevail, and that I would be just as likely to be severely injured or killed in a car crash because I couldn't turn my neck to see what was coming. I've seen people pull out in front of me when I could recognize the signs of a stiff neck. As we say down here- "He ain't seen me YET!" There is also a very tragic instance in our family of just such a traffic fatality. Cervical Diskectomy for me? Thanks, but no thanks. In addition, I have known many people and family members who have had various spinal surgeries. For only a very few, it was worth it. For the most part, the rest have tales of woe that range from continued pain and more surgeries, to paralysis and death.

I've had enough pain, screaming and bleeding to last the rest of my life. I ain't a-goin' outta here thataway. Back to the present: I won't try to describe every little detail of the last 2 months. After all this is all anecdotal and subjective anyway isn't it? If someone wishes not to believe it, all my description will be for naught. Suffice it to say that I have pushed myself to the point of exhaustion several times in the past 2 months, especially in the past 5 weeks, and my back has not crapped out on me. Its big things like driving hundreds of miles at a time, and little things like loading Barry Carter's TV into the back of Dana Dudley's car, that have just thrilled me to be able to do. Like I said earlier though, I haven't done anything too stupid, unless riding a wave runner around Lake Norman for more than an hour counts for stupid. That's the first time in my life I've been able to do that for more than 20 minutes. It's the first I ever actually enjoyed it. There was no compressing pain in the lumbar from all the bouncing.

I've been told by three people during or after the Dunn meeting that I "look happy", that my "spirit shines", and that I "glow". Aw shucks, now I'm gonna get all flustered. I don't know what others see; all I see in the mirror is a short red faced blonde headed fat guy. But I am happy! Now to try to answer everyone's questions about what I'm doing. First- I'm completely convinced that I killed my Degenerative Disk Disease before my ormus experience. I did it accidentally and purposefully with Iodine and Beck-type Blood Electrification. It was a very rough and lengthy process. I don't know that I recommend it now in light of my ormus experience. I wonder if taking some of these preparations would do the same thing in a milder way. I just plain don't know. What I do know is you must be prepared for a healing crisis first, no matter how you accomplish it.

I assume that if one were to start down this path without having killed the disease first, then it may take longer to get the results I have gotten. PATIENCE is very much in order. I am taking "The White Dove". Once again, I will only reveal the name of the maker in response to individual emails on the site. Click on Daddybob above for that. I started off with a 50/50 blend of "Elixir of Life" (EoL) and "The White Dove" (WD), because WD by itself would have been a bit strong. If you are in great pain, it may be even better to start off with "C-11" first to ease into this, then move up to EoL, then to WD. We are talking only eyedropperfuls of this stuff folks.

If you take too much too soon you may have insomnia, bothersome dreams, and harsh healing crises. I was warned of this and I listened and learned. I have over-indulged a bit a few times and I can attest. I was also told that you will begin to intuitively know how much to take after a couple of weeks, and I can attest to that as well. I intend to start taking C-11 and ormus copper. I have just gotten information that I should take copper 5 days a week, and zinc on the weekends. I'll post again here when results are worth mentioning. In the meantime- my neck seems to keep loosening, slowly to be sure. About my Tinnitus- I've been holding back saying anything; I still have it most of the time, but I think it's less intense.

DB

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 08:49:18 -0700 (PDT) From: daddybob Subject: Back update- just a twitch

Barry- I'd like you to append this to my last update, please.

Some emails I've received make me wonder if people think I'm growing a new spine. I'm concerned that some may get the impression that I have no lumbar problems at all anymore. Such is not the case, but I haven't felt it worth mentioning until now. I do use up all my energy, everyday. I go to bed tired, and usually sleep like a rock. This makes for a stiff back the next morning. In the past, there were two things I did to limber up. One is an exercise you can see at http://www.health2us.com/back.htm That's probably the best back exercise I've ever seen that doesn't require equipment. The other thing was to get on my stairstepper. I found a fantastic deal a few years ago on a military surplus stairmaster- the kind with endless loop stairs. Before that, I used a cheapo like you see in Walmart.

They work just as well for the back, but not for the knees. Now I do a mild bounce every morning on a Needak Rebounder. It seems to do as much for me, maybe more, as the stairstepper. It also seems to help my neck. Now to the real reason for this post: For several years, there would be times when I might be doing OK, I would be bebopping along, do just the slightest wrong little turn or bend while walking, and have a searing stabbing nerve pain that originated in my lumbar and would shoot through my entire body. Many times I gasped or even hollered out loud; My legs would go weak and my knees would start to buckle. I would have to steady myself on the nearest thing I could find. This entire episode might last all of 3 seconds. It scared the living whatever-you-want-to-insert-here out of me. I knew what the end of this was going to be if I couldn't find something to help it.

I had developed quite a kow-tow routine about how to approach any task without causing myself grief: Bend always at the knees, never bend or twist the back, never extend arms outwards to handle a load, keep all carried loads close to the stomach or chest. As I have improved, my routine has gotten slack. A few times I have pushed myself hard, then done little things that caused a nerve pinch and gave me pause. Little things like standing at the sink and leaning over sideways to load the dishwasher (Why yes, I am Mr. Mom, at least sometimes!). The difference is no gasps, no screams, no blinding pain, no terror, no buckling knees; just a twitch and the knowledge that there still is a problem that I need to be careful about.

Daddybob

11/5/2003

I've subtitled this "The Measure of My Success", which will be revealed at the end. The first part of this update was drafted 9/5/03, but I felt it was premature to post. Now I know it was. Other things have happened since, and it's now time to post. Here it is in chronological order.

9/5/2003

WD: White Dove; EoL: Elixir of Life

I had earlier in my log mentioned how these preparations had given me my drive back. In recent weeks I had noticed that diminishing. I just assumed something had "worn off". As I kept studying, I realized that I was only taking WD, which is primarily three elements. I figured I need the other 8 for more results. Initially, the formula I took was 50/50 Eol & WD, so I began to look at C-11 & EoL. If I understand it correctly, EoL is a refinement of C-11. I had EoL for my wife to take, and I began to take some of hers, in addition to my WD. Well, all my drive returned! I found myself once again not dreading mundane tasks. For example, you simply must clean up to improve the efficiency of your physical life and make room for more exploration of new things. Our kids are trickling out to College, with the last one now in High School, and there is a mountain of cleaning to be done behind them. I found myself no longer dreading it and able to dive in.

Another thing happened. I had mentioned dreams before. They had trickled off, at least the remembering of them had subsided. You must be in a twilight state between deep sleep and wakening to remember a dream. I was sleeping hard. After starting back on the EoL, I began to sleep hard for 4-6 hours, then be in twilight for the remaining 2 hours or so, remembering all kinds of little dreams. Most dreams don't mean too much. Most of them are merely the mind sorting out and filing away the events of everyday life. OK, sure, they mean something, but most of it is not worth getting excited over. I would just as soon sleep harder, but somehow remembering these little dreams, while bothersome in the wee hours, is nevertheless comforting. Despite not being in deep sleep, I still arise rested for the most part.

Now to my back, the primary subject of this log. I don't think I've mentioned too much about any specific pain other than to say there is stiffness in the morning. To be more specific, that stiffness has been on the right side of my sacroiliac area. This is very different from the past 22 years, where the majority of pain was on my left side. (22 years: I had my first real "back attack" when I was 27, now I'm 49). This right side stiffness and mild pain, I have been taking as a sign that my spine was moving, and muscles were adjusting to new positions and possibly more normal stresses. I have been aware that it was slowly getting better. At first it would take sometimes an hour to get "limbered up". Recently it had gotten down to 5 minutes on my rebounder to do it, doing a very light "health bounce".

Something happened yesterday (9-4-03). I went to ride my bike and run the dog, later than usual, getting dark, so I did it fast and hard. When I finished I felt a tightness, but not pain, in those right side low back muscles. Then it hit me- that particular morning pain and stiffness- in my right low back- had not occurred for several days. It had left me so gradually that I had not even noticed its passing; I had been too busy with life to notice it! This is not to say that all morning grogginess and stiffness was gone- just that particular bit. See my comments later about using the Crock Device. My neck- still getting better it seems. A new pillow- one of those with a roll on one edge to support the neck, has begun putting my neck in a very mild traction when I sleep. After the first night it felt a bit weird, but after the third it began to feel really good.

This pillow is a cheapie, but it helps. I usually can only sleep on expensive foam rubber pillows, cannot sleep on polyester fiber filled pillows. I slept on it for several nights, then the need for it left me and I went back to my regular pillows. See my comments later about the rebounder. AND MY KNEES! I don't think I've mentioned much about them here. I have a small tear in the meniscus of my left knee- just of a size and nature that surgery was questionable. In the past it's been really bothersome. My right one I turned a bit backwards a several years ago and it has really bothered me too. Both had been for the most part under control by means of other alternatives, but of late they are really strong, much more than they've been with any other of those alternative therapies.

Some disjointed notes to add:

10-15-03

Using a Needak Rebounder doing only a daily 5-minute "health bounce" (feet nor heels leave the mat) has really strengthened my neck, and in several months now no neck discomfort from using the rebounder. When I first started doing it, it bothered my neck so much I thought I would have to stop.

- - - -

I still occasionally get a certain twitch- I have solidly identified when where how it happens. First, it has to be morning shortly after rising. It doesn't happen after getting loosened up for the day. It happens when I extend my left arm and bend slightly at the waist, slightly to the left, to pick up or handle something with my left hand extended below my waist. As described before, our dishwasher is to the left of our sink. If I'm reaching like I described to get a clean dish, the twitch will rise up and smite me. It is over just as fast as it starts when I straighten

up.

That is just about the only lumbar pain I have had in months. (except for 11-04-03)

- - - - - - -

** When I first posted my results (go way back to the start), Barry left in the double asterisks, but deleted the old joke they referred to. I think it gives insight into the nature of my injuries and my character (?)

Q: What's the last thing a good-ol-boy says before a ride in an ambulance?

A: Hey Y'all, watch this!

10-16-03

I am now remembering how apprehensive I was in the beginning about taking ormus, but how cornered I was with my back. I had been through 3 years and 9 months at that time of continually improving health, almost constantly discovering alternative methods to cure- not just treat- the myriad of conditions that haunted me. Every time, I was left with more energy, and every time, I had used that energy up trying to catch up on life. But every time, it had always come back to my back problems.

By spring '03, my back was staying in mild pain- right at the threshold of disability, and by now I had developed the self-preservation instinct not to do anything that would take me over that edge, but I knew it loomed large. I could not continue that way; I had to find a way out. So there was my motivation: desperation. I think that it takes quite a bit of bravery to jump off into the ormus world. It does appear that out of all the alternatives out there, this one is the smallest, least known, and most intimidating. It seems to me that it takes either a hardy soul or a foolhardy one to get into this, or just plain desperation.

11/5/2003

I have wonderful success using the Crock Device as an adjunct to my healing. My effects have been that I have much less morning grogginess and much less stiffness and soreness, and tend to eat less, and drink much less morning coffee and afternoon tea. However the "Law of Unintended Consequences" has reared its head. Tending to eat less has caused me to eat less protein, which I have discovered is a mistake for me. I apparently tend to get not enough ATP because of this, and my back and leg muscles can grow weak and fatigued as a result. I have worked on this by increasing my protein intake while watching more carefully what else I eat. Eating mostly protein gets boring and leads to constipation. I have am having good results against that by eating freshly ground flax seed with nuts and coconut. I am also increasing my use of creatine, but not too much.

So what is "the measure of my success"? Expensive shoes and boots, that's what. How So?

When I was at my lowest point, over 4 years ago now, one of the things that was killing me physically and financially was my need to change shoes up to 4 times a day because my feet were killing me. I could not abide cheap shoes. I could only wear Red Wings, Nikes, and Rockports. Keeping a stable full of them in several different styles was costly. My feet have not bothered me in a long, long time, but now it has come full circle. Between Ormus and the Crock Device, I have gotten so much energy and life back that I am on the go like I was 10 years ago.

I have pushed myself into so much fatigue that my feet crapped out on me before my back did. I bought several pairs of new shoes of the above brands and kept going until finally my back gave out on me yesterday. But this time it was very different. It was only my muscles, not my spine that gave out. A day of eating high quality protein and taking a good dose of creatine brought it all back overnight. These updates will come slower now. I proclaim this endeavor to be a success. I have gone over 6 months with very little back pain and no bed days. That's a 20-year record for me.

Daddybob

Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 18:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: The White Dove & my neck & back:

It's been about 13-14 months now since I first started taking The White Dove and The Elixir of Life (hereafter abbreviated TWD & EoL). For those new to Ormus, these are made by Don Nance of www.oceanalchemy.com. TWD is his version of the Essene's "M-3", also made by others. For background, my story and log is at ormus.net under reported effects, back problems by Daddybob. As of early this year, I had slowed down taking TWD & EoL, for many reasons, not the least of which was plain old sloth and miserliness. It seemed I had gotten perhaps all of the benefit I was going to get, considering that TWD/M-3 is a substance that you are not supposed to need to take forever. Also, I had been re-dipping the eye dropper I was using in the bottle too much and I think I contaminated it.

So about February I was beginning to have a little back discomfort. I re-committed myself to taking however much it takes for as long as it takes, forever if need be, no matter the cost, because the cost of the alternative was quite worse. It had not yet done very much for my neck and I'll admit that was a bit of a disappointment, but maybe I had not given it enough time, so I pressed on with taking about a teaspoonful every morning 5-6 days a week. I quit using the eyedropper. Lately I had begun to think that there was considerably less crepitation (noise) in my neck, and that there was more movement without having taken any large amounts of CMO in several months, and without drowning myself by drinking so much water. But I couldn't be sure, because at the same time I had developed quite a lot of pain in my right shoulder and arm.

Those who have experienced healing know that pain can come with it. This pain was different from my previous experience with that arm and reminded me of what happened to my back when I first started taking TWD. Always before, pain in that arm and shoulder would culminate in numbness and paralysis of that arm. Always before, drinking lots of water and doing some loosening exercises would relieve the problem. This time none of that worked. It started about 3 weeks ago and at its worst it made driving and using the computer both most unpleasant. As time has passed, it has receded up my arm to now being almost only in my shoulder and the intensity has ratcheted down considerably. It's still tough to ride a bike for long. I am convinced that nothing I have consciously done has caused this pain to back off; it's just going away on its own.

Be patient, I'm going somewhere by explaining all of this. Last August, when Barry Carter came to Dunn NC, I related in my log how little things were so important in realizing my recovery. At that time, I loaded Barry's TV in the back seat of Dana Dudley's car. I was HAPPY to be able to do that. No pain. I've worked physically very hard all my life and the return of physical strength has been enormously important to me. So here's why I relate that TV story again and why I'm writing this now. My wife and I installed a 20" TV on a wall mount in our bedroom yesterday. This TV is a larger than normal 20" set because it's a flat screen with side speakers, all of which makes for a big, heavy unit. The bottom of the wall mount is 6' off the floor. I lifted the TV 5' high first onto the top shelf of the stepladder, then climbed the ladder and transferred it to the wall mount with no problem. That's after loading it in and out of the car and carrying it around the house. This may not sound like a big deal to some but it is to a man who could not have possibly done that a year ago or for the five years previous!

But that's not even the really exciting part.

After I got it up there and turned it on, I sat almost directly under it while I began assembling something else. Something came on that caught my interest and I stopped what I was doing and looked straight up to watch the program. I think I watched it for 5 minutes before it hit me that I CAN'T LOOK STRAIGHT UP!!! My neck won't do it! Ever since then I've been looking straight up at things and running my mouth about it. It is awesome*. For a few years now I've had to either back away from something to look up or turn slightly sideways so I could turn my neck to look up. Something else has happened that I noticed a few days ago and have double checked on today. In my log several months ago I mentioned that my knees were getting stronger. Well that's not all, they're getting quieter. For years I couldn't sneak up on my kids to catch them at instant messaging on the computer when they should have been doing homework.

They always heard my knees coming, Snap Crackle Pop! A few days ago I sneaked up on my youngest daughter and caught her but good. That's when I first realized it. Today I sneaked up on my wife while she played Solitaire. Both times the house was quiet. I didn't have to creep; I walked normally on bare feet. My knees have made a racket for the last 10 years. In a few days I will have something to say about TWD and migraines, particularly opthalmic migraine, and perhaps another medical condition peculiar to women. *Another reason I may have backed away from taking enough TWD & EoL was my enormous respect for it that bordered on awe and fear. Only those who have experienced enormous pain can understand, and then only if they have experienced enormous relief and recovery, without drugs and surgery, which are not true recovery. I should also mention that I take a little of ormus copper from time to time. At least some of my new strength is attributable to taking Whey Protein, but not the neck movement. I'm also very convinced that any supplements that work at all, work much better with taking M-stuff.

Daddybob

Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:28:00 -0700 (PDT) From: daddybob Subject: The White Dove and Opthalmic Migraine

This is about my daughter Bonnie and her experience with Opthalmic Migraine and Ormus. Bonnie is 18 and a college freshman in a regional state university not far from our home. She is not a driven perfectionist, but she is a concientious high achiever. She is also a sappy sweetheart and mostly a homebody. She just finished her first year with a 3.92 GPA. I'm not bragging, it's just that I once thought the stress of school, living away from home, and working two part-time jobs was causing her problems. As I will relate further on, I no longer think that way. For those who don't know, Opthalmic (or Visual) Migraine (I will now abbreviate to O.M.) is a partial blindness that comes on often with no warning. It is a graying out, not a blacking out of the vision, and it is partial, not total blindness. Episodes usually last from 10-40 minutes, but hers were almost always a minimum of 40 minutes up to nearly 50 minutes. It is a neurological problem, not an eye problem.

She had her first episode at 14. It was triggered by MSM eye drops. At that time I was a near MSM freak, having literally had my life saved by it. I thought it was good for everything that ailed man or beast, and there was nearly nothing I wouldn't try with it. She had some eye problems one Saturday afternoon, and I gave her these drops to soothe her eyes (it really can be very soothing like that). Very quickly, partial blindness set in and I thought I had blinded my daughter. We were able to get our Optometrist to look at her, but it was over by then. He did a full exam and found nothing, then told me that this "sometimes happens to teenage girls". Since then I've learned that it's a lot more common than that. I also now understand why MSM triggered it. MSM is a very powerful detoxifying agent. I suspect it loosened some allergens and triggered a vasospasm. O.M. is a result of vasospasm, a spasm of arteries behind the eye, resulting in blood flow being shut off to the optic nerve.

She never had it again until she was 18 and in her first semester of college. Her first episode was while leaving a class near dark, trying to get to her apartment. Thank God she had a cell phone. The most worrisome thing about all of this came to be that she might have an episode while driving. She began to have these episodes nearly on a weekly schedule, usually on Thursday evening, and late in the day. It appeared to us to be a stress reaction from a busy week, dreading any Friday quizzes or weekend homework assignments, and preparing to come home for the weekend, which is a change, and all change is stress. I'll go ahead and interject here that subsequent events combined with a letter from an e-buddy on the WGL caused me to drop those notions. I now think, like he, that migraine in its many forms is an allergic reaction. In her case, I think it was her moldy apartment building. This person sent me a long letter of his study of this situation. I will edit that document to remove all personal references and certain sensitive information, then I will make it available to those who want it.

I just did not make a connection to using ormus for her to start with. That is probably because of my previously stated profound awe in realizing what it had done for me (and continues to do- I CAN LOOK UP AGAIN!). We tried an herbal preparation tailored for female problems because we wondered if it was related. It was made of herbs soaked in Vodka, but she just could not choke it down. I am grateful to the person who sent it to us, but I must admit to being glad to find out that she couldn't drink Vodka:) So I started to search again, and it was at this time that I spoke with Don Nance about it, quite by accident. Don had a family member that had it, and it stopped after using M-3. Don's White Dove (TWD) is a version of M-3, and I didn't waste any time ordering more (we were out) and Don rushed the order because of the seriousness of the situation. It's now been 10 weeks since she started taking it. She thinks that in that time she has only taken 4 ounces of it, along with some Elixir of Life, but I think she's taken 8 ounces of TWD altogether.


She had two episodes in the first two weeks, but it was significant to us that they were of shorter duration. The second episode ended abruptly when her sister got her to laugh. Since then, someone else furnished me with information that the episodes can be stopped by breathing oxygen. Aviation oxygen was the suggested way of getting breathing quality oxygen with no scrip. We didn't have to go that far. That was now 8 weeks ago. It's all stopped. 8 weeks does not make a cure, but she's finished her last TWD this week, and now continues to take EoL. Now to our next project. My wife has uterine fibroid tumor(s). At least one is getting big enough to be a problem. She has been taking EoL for a few months now, and has just started taking TWD. She shortly thereafter had a instance of pain in there.

Could be a healing crisis has begun, but we just don't know. In an alt. med. newsletter to which I subscribe, there was recently a mention of Lycopene shrinking fibroid tumors. This appears to be new info and there's not much out there about it. She has begun taking a Lycopene supplement, in the hopes that it may be fortified or used by the ormus to start reducing her tumor(s). In addition, we intend to have her use a Beck Device on very low power for a couple hours a couple of times week. Microcurrent electricity has been shown to enable blood cells to live much longer in vitro. I think that was part of the reason for my wonderful results from it 3 years ago. If the body does not have to use energy making blood cells, or if more blood cells are alive in the blood stream, delivering nutrients and ormus to afflicted tissues, it seems to me it can only be a good thing.

Daddybob

Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2004 09:32:36 -0400 Subject: Getting taller

After 15 months of taking the White Dove and Elixir of Life, I am from 3/4" to 1" taller than in February '03. I have taken measurements at different times of day to confirm. I had shrunk about 1-1/4" by age 48, due to spinal deterioration. Now at age 50, I am within about 1/4" of my 20 year old height of 5'-8". However, be aware that stretching out an old body does not happen without discomfort (OK, pain!); when cartilage renews, it pushes out on nerves, muscles, ligaments, tendons, etc. My middle daughter, 18, who is taking it for Opthalmic Migraine (no episodes now in 3 months) is now almost 1/2" taller than she was in March '04. In addition, the mild back problems that have been with her through her teens are now gone. By early this year, her baby sister, 15, had passed her by 1/4"; now baby sister is baby sister again:)

Daddybob

Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 09:44:55 -0400 Questions and Answers

First, my significant other (SO) is my wife of 27 yrs and mother of our 4 children. We have a very traditional Judeo-Christian concept of marriage and it works very well for us. She would never leave me except for abuse, and I will never abuse her in my right mind

Q: Will the pursuit of this interfere in the quality of your life? Will you be able to function normally?

A: I was approaching physical uselessness, with debilitating physical problems- deteriorated spine. Quality of life and function are WAY UP. Wife now taking it for other problems.

Q: Are the ORMUS users you have talked with functioning members of society? Holding down jobs, involved in the community, etc.? That's particularly important to ask about long-term users.

A: Long term is a relative term, 15 months for me now on strong substance, 4-6 months for her on weaker substance, 2 weeks on strong substance. One daughter also taking strong substance for 3 months now.

I'm self-employed, small trade business, 4-8 employees. She works for the local judicial system. Small town dwellers. We are active in local church, High School Band Boosters, local juvenile justice system. Really boring and normal people we are, if anything over-active and over-committed in the local community. I particularly am much more involved than I was 1-2 years ago. My relief has allowed more involvement for her.

Q: On the one hand, I feel that the basic category that these substances fall into, in terms of taking them internally, is "nutritional supplements" (although I realize they are not "ordinary" supplements). At one point, I felt as if our relationship was (possibly) being more or less put on the line over something like, "Choose between vitamin C and me."

A: Nutritional supplement is certainly a valid way for me to look at it, but it sure is way the #%*@ past vitamin C LOL! Or anything else I ever took, and I took a LOT. Nope, definitely not ordinary.

Q: Would your pursuit of 'the ethereal' lead you into illicit drugs?

A: Most definitely not for me, and has caused me to become very picky and choosy about the quality of the one drug I do indulge in, alcohol. The good part of that is that I drink much less. I only drank for pain relief and to relax; now only to occasionally relax. I always preferred sobriety and more so now. I do not pursue the ethereal; I let it pursue me. Having had many psychic experiences long before ormus, I had in the past pursued it. I now consider that a broad path to deception. I think using ormus has led me more firmly to that conclusion. But my intuition works overtime these days.

Q: Another line area of concern is expressed in the question, "Would this not be an inauthentic means to obtain spiritual enlightenment ... from a purely philosophical viewpoint?"

A: I generally agree except for one thing: nothing I have ever done has brought my (formerly) explosive temper under so much control. It's not perfect, but it sure is better. I have learned that I can be just as direct and blunt as I need to be, without anger. Before ormus, I really and truly coveted that, saw it in others and wanted it, but could not attain it. My stack would blow. Now it just doesn't anywhere near as much, and it feels really good.

Daddybob

7/27/2004

Neck update and other results.

Barry, you may add this to my log. When I started this log, I listed 3 conditions in need of healing: Back, neck, and tinnitus. The back got better from the start, now about16-17 months ago. I am much stronger in my back now than I ever dared hope for. The neck took a lot longer, and that's mostly what this post is about, and I still have the tinnitus; oh well, two out of three ain't bad. From 7-18 thru 7-23, my wife and I were chaperones at high school marching band camp. Our camp is held at an old and primitive 4H camp in central NC. That means no air conditioning. Southerners or anyone who has lived a southern summer will know what that means: it means you stay sticky or dripping wet 24 hours a day and in constant danger of overheating. We've been taking from one to four of our kids to some kind of camp for 20 years now, and have often been chaperones.

During that time, these summer camp experiences have become benchmarks for both my physical decline from 1994 through 1999, and my recoveries since 1999. From '94 to '99, summer camps were becoming an increasingly depressing experience for me as I could tell just how much of my strength was ebbing away. The worst was Girl Scout Family Camp in '96, when I was wrapped up in 3 braces, spent most of my time in a cabin reading a book and hobbled to meals on a cane, and generally was a drag on my family. What can I say to express the difference now? I won't try to bore anyone with all the details, but to say I'm a new man just seems too simple. The physical end of this summer's camp experience was much more like I was 35 again. It was an absolute joy to be able to work like that again, and to deprive myself of sleep to be sure the boys stayed in their cabins at night.

For several weeks now I have been rapidly regaining range of motion in my neck. It was obvious while driving locally that I could turn my neck to see things at odd-angle intersections instead of depending on my mirrors as much as I had been. That's why the camp experience is relevant to this. I had to drive our big van and pull a 20' trailer to the camp, then thread that rig through paths that were originally built to accommodate nothing larger than the pickup trucks of the late 40's. This made for a lot of neck craning, and jumping in and out of a ton Ford van. That van is high off the ground, I'm stocky, and I have to contort myself to get in and out of it, let alone having to jump out on very uneven terrain and tree roots. I did it all, twice, once coming and once going. Man it was fun! It was wonderful! If you've never been to the edge of life/death and then returned, you just can't understand how someone can have so much enjoyment out of such mundane things, even hard-to-do things, and call it fun. Meanwhile back at home, it's been one of the hottest, most humid summers we've had in years.

In temperate weather I try to ride my bike and take my dog for a run every evening. It's good for the dog and not half bad for me. Well, it's been way too hot for the dog, at least that's a good excuse. I went for a month without doing it until we had a little break in the heat. When I did go out, about a week ago, it turned out to be the ultimate test for my neck. While riding uphill to a certain intersection, not wanting to stop so the bugs couldn't catch me, I had to keep pedaling, turn the bike, and turn my neck in all directions to watch for cars and the dog. Now this is nothing extraordinary for most people, but since I hadn't done it in a month, it really showed me what my neck can now do. I was amazed. It was fun! Bugs, sweat, heat, humidity, bike, cars, dog and all. In testing my neck range of motion while in the quiet of my home, the sounds of crepitation are nearly gone-there's just a little squishy sound, and it' s nothing like the noise my neck made 10 years ago. I can only hear these noises now when in the quiet; for the last several years I could hear noises even while driving with my window down.

I now seem to have regained the full range of motion that I should have in my neck. Several weeks ago I posted that I could look up again, now my full side-to-side motion is back, or at least I have normal neck motion for a 50 year old. How do I know how much neck motion a 50 year old should have, I've never been 50 before. But I have been 45, and this is a heap more than I had then. I think this is pretty awesome for a guy who's been told by a neurosurgeon that he needs a double cervical diskectomy and may be a quadriplegic from a minor traffic accident. (I think I've mentioned before that in my opinion the loss of neck movement from that surgery would almost guarantee that I would not see a car about to hit me from the side and that I might pull out in front of someone- Risk Homeostasis!), I still can't snap my neck around like a teenager, but I'm a heap better off than a lot of people I see of my age.

I am fond of saying that The White Dove will go to work where it decides, not where you decide. I'm still aiming for my tinnitus, but it has decided that something else is next- my jaws, especially the right one. Years ago I knew that the arthritis and wear in my jaws was getting serious, but it was one of the least of my worries-as my bride recently said, you don't worry too much about your jaws when you're worried about being able to walk. About a month ago, my jaws popped one day very strongly and oddly like nothing I had ever felt before. I thought of how odd it was then, but I was really busy and put it aside in my mind. Within a few days both of my jaws were sore and hurting in a way that I had never experienced. The right one was much worse. I racked my brain for what I might have done or be doing to cause this.

Since the discomfort was worse when waking, I decided it had to do with my sleeping positions. Nope, wrong for the most part, although changing my pillows around did help a little. I finally realized that this was a lot like my very first healing experience with The White Dove. I just now started to abbreviate it as TWD like I have often in the past. I just couldn't do it. I've developed too much respect for it. Anyway, when I first started taking it, my back shifted and hurt in a way one day that I had never felt. This is like that. It's now so much better that it's not really bothering me too much. The left side has stopped hurting altogether. I can now chew tough foods with no jaw popping like I've had for years. I'm waiting to see what happens next, hoping to all of a sudden realize that I can hear without this whine in my head (no, it's not the nada.) Remember, if you're new to any alternative healing and you're reading this for the first time: real healing hurts but it is so worth it.

Daddybob


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