Zeolite for Autism28.09.2012
by Prociuk - Peter
Conference Call with Dr. Peter Prociuk
Notes from conference call with Dr. Peter Prociuk, who is working with liquid zeolite and reversing symptoms of autism and other behavioral disorders in children.
Notes taken by Karuna Thal are not a totally complete transcription. There is nothing added, and nothing important left out. In this transcript we are referring only to liquid zeolite, not to a brand name, in order to be in accord with FDA regulations.
Dr. Peter Prociuk, M. D., Conference call April 6, 2006
Dr Peter Prociuk, a specialist in childhood Autism, has recorded a call in which he discusses the results of his trials with Zeolite, and several studies that are being conducted on Zeolite and Autism.
Hostess & MC: Marcy Littlejohn
Dr. Prociuk - Thank you for the invitation Marcy. I totally appreciate having the opportunity to speak about these wonderful products. My career started out pretty normally. I was board certified internal medicine in 1985, and worked in a teaching hospital initially, affiliated with the University of Pennsylvania. I've been an assistant director of an intensive care unit, and I also was involved in emergency medicine for a number of years.
The limitations of traditional medicine were very apparent to me from the very beginning of medical school. Fortunately, as I look back, I can say I never really trusted the drug culture that was carefully molded into us as medical students. I always had an open ear and an open eye for something else. As I continued to practice as a regular doctor, my dissatisfaction with traditional methods progressively increased. I was continually faced with the question, "Doctor, what can you do to help me get rid of my condition, instead of giving me something that just temporarily relieves the symptoms. After years of study and long hours of hard work, I simply didn't have an answer to those questions. That made me extremely frustrated.
At one point I was ready to throw in the towel and take up book binding or something for a living. At that time I met an elderly gentleman who was a doctor and practicing homeopath. To make a long story short, I took up his offer to practice homeopathy. He gave me his practice in 1992. Through the 90s I practiced very happily and with a great deal of satisfaction as a classical homeopath. During the 90s I encountered lots of kids with various developmental challenges, and while homeopathy was very helpful in a lot many of those cases, there were a good number who only partially responded, and many who didn't respond at all.
It was clear to me that there was a level of toxicity involved in their conditions for which more physical methods of treatment were required. Homeopathy, as some of you may know, is a form of energy medicine, similar to acupuncture. That type of treatment alone just didn't seem to cut the mustard. I attended some conferences that addressed the issue of toxicity in children. I learned some of the methods to deal with them, primarily through nutrition, dietary changes and Chelation. I started integrating those methods in my practice in the late 90s and early 2000s.
My introduction to liquid zeolite came through my partner's mother, who was diagnosed with very advanced uterine cancer in late 2005. After about 2 months on liquid zeolite, there was no clinical evidence that she had any cancer left. That's just an eye popper.
You just absolutely have to stop dead in your tracks and look at what this product is. Literally there was nothing in my previous experience that remotely resembled that kind of dramatic results. As I studied this very remarkable product further, I understood it to be a tremendously powerful agent of detoxification, and I recognized that it had a wonderful application in the autism world.
I've been using it with a wonderful degree of success, and without the problems associated with traditional Chelation. Also, a pretty wide range of other problems are very much helped by liquid zeolite, in that it removes the toxicity that promotes the establishment of a wide number of diseases. There's lots more I could say, but I think I'll open it up for questions.
Marcy - I have a list of questions, and will start with the ones that were sent in ahead of time. I also have some guests on the line who will ask questions. Peter and I have been working with each other and with a group of autistic children... We each have some great testimonies. Peter has been working with somewhere between 30 or 40 kids already... and only 1 didn't show results in the first couple of months?
Dr. Prociuk - Yes. Traditional methods of Chelation the last form I used was transdermal DMPS. You have to do that for several months before you start to see anything either in terms of detox reaction or clinical response. Not in every child but the protocol generally calls for along Chelation, up to 2 years, with testing in between to make sure you're not depleting minerals, and also from time to time checking liver function, because DMPS has a low risk of hepatic toxicity.
None of those complications exist with liquid zeolite. It doesn't have depletion issues. It doesn't have any liver toxicity. Also the propensity for other chelators to aggregate yeast overgrowth, which plagues this population of patients, also doesn't exist with liquid zeolite.
Liquid zeolite has fungicidal and fungi static properties of its own. Very
importantly, traditional chelators have a selected target. They're charge
specific and only 3 have an affinity for metals with a specific charge. Liquid
zeolite doesn't have that limitation. It complexes the full spectrum of
heavy metals with equal affinity,
and that makes it a vastly superior choice in my opinion... It's the perfect tool. As a clinician, you really can't ask for anything better.
Marcy - When we see something without any dangerous side effects and virtually incredible results, it is incredible.
Dr. Prociuk - Some parents have reported a shift in their child within the first day or two. Others take a little longer. Sometimes the results are very dramatic, sometimes they're a bit more gradual. With perhaps 2 exceptions I haven't heard a single parent tell me they haven't had any results at all.
That's generally after the first month when they come back for a follow up. That was not my experience with DMPS. You have to stay the course and hope... After 3 or 4 months you have to have patience and encourage patience in the parents. This is infinitely more satisfying as a clinician to have a product like this to use-a real delight actually.
Marcy - As a non-clinician the results are delightful for me. You don't have to have a degree to use this. We are so blessed that moms, dads, aunts, and uncles can bring this product to the family and know they are safe in doing so.
Dr. Prociuk -The other thing I want to mention is that you have such tremendous control over the dosage. You can literally start with one drop if you have a very sensitive kid. Or you can even dilute that one drop and give them less if you have an extraordinarily sensitive child, and work up slowly. The liquid zeolite lasts in the body 4 to 7 hours. It's not stored, it's not metabolized. And that gives you a tremendous amount of control and lack of worry in terms of side effects, which is a huge advantage.
Marcy - That answers one of our questions beautifully. I didn't even have to state the question... Do you have an idea what you'd use for a weight scale in working with children?
Dr. Prociuk - I don't go by weight. I try to get an assessment of a child's sensitivity. A 50 pound child may be able to handle an adult dose very comfortably. On the other hand, a metabolically child might be able to handle only 2 drops. So in this particular population, as a rule, I will always start with a low dose-say 2 drops twice a day, and I'll caution the parents to look for detox symptoms. Slowly work up according to the child's response. For a child, I'd never exceed 10 drops 3x/day, and very often much less is required.
You gauge how much you give according to what you see. If you run into a detox kind of situation where there's nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, increased hyperactivity, skimming, things like that - I'll skip a dose or two, let the reaction die down, and resume it at the previous lower dose. I don't believe that pushing a child through the detoxification phase does anything favorable for the child or parent... You can go more slowly, give everybody a break, and in the end get the results. It may take a little longer. It's a more comfortable and easier way to go.
I'm a firm believer that the "one size fits all" simply doesn't click in clinical medicine. You have to take each person separately and take into account his or her individual sensitivity and go accordingly.
Question: Are really 1 in every 120 kids is diagnosed with autism?
Marcy- Do you see that to be true?
Dr. Prociuk - Clearly we have an epidemic of neurodevelopment disorders, and we have the sickest generation ever, 1/3 of the children on some kind of chronic medication. Ask any adult how many of our classmates as kids had asthma. Now it's 3 in every class. Not only in autism spectrum, but in the whole health picture. It's taking a marked, and scary turn for the worst. It's clearly environmental-not genetic, or humans would have been wiped out eons ago. We're seeing roughly the same statistics in all part of the country.
In my opinion, it's the lunatic vaccine schedule that children are getting. I believe it's not just the MMR. There are many factors to be considered... Thimerosal is putting 80 times the EPA recommended amount into an infant is not only lunatic but also criminal. There's the biological effect-the human immune system is designed to deal with one antigen at a time. Vaccines inject 8 to 10 antigens at one time. When you do that, something is going to break. Liquid zeolite appears to be efficacious with a very wide variety of toxins, including all the toxins associated with vaccines... including... heavy metals, yeast toxins... that's what makes it such a valuable tool in dealing with this.
Any child would benefit from liquid zeolite just to clean up the garbage.
Marcy - Peter is a doctor. We don't make medical claims. What we are doing is trying to help your awareness. We are making every effort to educate people about a clear, concise victory weapon. We want to give clear information, without making claims.
Question: My 3 year old has been on liquid zeolite 5 for 3 weeks. He doesn't grind his teeth at night any more. Why?
Dr. Prociuk - Skimming, slapping, eye movements, pinching, teeth grinding are symptoms of a central nervous system that is constantly short-circuiting. There was a paper written comparing symptoms of mercury toxicity to autism- there are about 100 symptoms in each column, and they are remarkably similar. The fact this child is no longer doing that is evidence that liquid zeolite has removed toxins from this child, which is a wonderful thing. You can be sure it worked without stirring up yeast... and causing depletion of essential minerals.
Question - Have any of your patients gotten completely well?
Dr. Prociuk - Kids that have no recognizable symptoms of autism are a definite minority. Maybe 10% of the kids I've treated have fallen into that category. Developmental pediatricians, etc. say the diagnosis of autism no longer apply to that child. With the majority, there are still ongoing issues of a developmental nature that require time and patience. With liquid zeolite I had one guy whose feet were raw and flaking, they looked like hamburger. They cleared up after a few weeks on liquid zeolite. People say, "is it good for this...?" The degree to which systemic toxicity is causing that situation is the degree to which it will help. You use it to clean the house. When the house is clean, the body's ability to heal itself will function that much better.
Question - Does it matter what age the child is?
Dr. Prociuk - In general, the younger the better, the condition is not that deeply established, however anybody can respond. You cannot predict how a patient will respond or not respond. I'm presently treating a 35 year old autistic lady who had no ability to focus or stay on track whatsoever. After a few weeks on liquid zeolite, her mother said she read 3 pages of a book without stopping and with comprehension. The individual's ability to heal should never be prejudged. Use the liquid zeolite to clean house. According to that patient's ability to respond, the response will be there.
Question - Have you have experience with Aspergers' condition?
Dr. Prociuk - I have a number of children with Aspergers taking liquid zeolite. None of the parents have reported a great shift. However their social interactions all seem to be moving in a beneficial direction. Asperger Syndrome is within ASP spectrum. It's not full-blown autism...
Marcy - Some of the kids have stopped spinning, have stopped wearing helmets.
Dr. Prociuk - We're seeing increased eye contact. The mother who first sees it will tell you that's not a small thing. Improvement in speech, receptive language, expressive language, increased bowel function across the board. This can have wide ranging clinical benefits. Whatever is wrong, that child can respond to good detox regimen.
Question - Last night my autistic 4 year old was kicking his feet in the tub. He looked at me to see my reaction. We're seeing increased activity. What should we do with dose?
Dr. Prociuk - I'd adjust dose... it seems like a detox. If there's disruption in the household, you could skip a dose or 2, or go to a lower dose. The great thing about this product is you can totally customize a dose. You can give different doses in morning and evening. You can't do that with other Chelation agents.
Question - Please explain basic liquid zeolite mechanism.
Dr. Prociuk - Liquid zeolite is a honeycomb shaped molecule. It has a vast absorptive surface area. 100 drops contains an absorptive surface area of 80 to 90 square feet, which is incredible. In one level teaspoon roughly, there is 80 to 90 absorptive square feet of surface area. It is a very strongly negatively charged molecule. Toxins of all sorts, and certainly heavy metals, are all, without exception, positively charged. The basic mechanism of action is; there's a magnetic attraction to toxic build up areas in the body. Toxins are preferentially bonded to the zeolite because the zeolite contains a much stronger pull than the tissue to which the toxin is attached.
The question of depletion of essential minerals arises, because you'll say that calcium, magnesium, zinc, and other essentials are also positively charged. They do have an affinity for the zeolite molecule, but it's a much lower affinity than heavy metals because of the shape and size of the essential minerals. It's a molecular dimension issue more than anything.
When in the presence of heavy metals, whatever essential minerals are bound to the zeolite are easily displaced by the heavy metals which have a much stronger affinity for the binding sites of the zeolite. When the molecule reaches electrical neutrality after it has complexed whatever it's complexing it goes easily out the kidneys or the liver. It is an extraordinarily simple mechanism of action and an extraordinarily effective. Normal healthy tissue, because it's slightly alkaline and carries a negative charge will repel the zeolite. This is why it has this extraordinary safety profile.
Marcy - A young girl went from spinning stage-no longer rocking and knocking. I talk about what kids couldn't do that they are doing now. She didn't speak, or associate with people other than her mother. Within the first few weeks of using the product - 10 drops 3x/day - she started going through the house following people. The following turned into pantomime and the use imagination, which is one of the criteria that seems to be missing from our kids... In a little more than 3 weeks she began conversation. We're very excited about the conversations that started with "Let me do that."
Dr. Prociuk - One of the things that will be observed with liquid zeolite is what we call retracing.
Retracing is the transient return of old symptoms. In treating an autistic kid, parents will sometimes say, "the speech is better, eye contact is better, receptive speech is better, imaginative play is better... but he's doing this particular skim which he did a year ago and we haven't seen it for a year." What retracing means is that means the cellular memory of that particular symptom has been retained. Just because it disappeared doesn't mean it's been resolved, it's still layered over by something else.
One of the signs of a deep healing reaction is retracing. When you start to see old symptoms transiently reappear, it means a very deep healing reaction is going on. You can push through that. A retracing is something you can push through. It's very different than a detoxification. An acute detoxification reaction-you'll see nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, sweating, lethargy... an increased aggravation of the current symptom picture of what's already going on. That's very different from retracing. If you do see retracing, stay the course, and almost without exception that behavior will go away in a few days.
Marcy - Dr. Rau is very familiar with what we're talking about. He has some questions.
Dr. Rau - When you treat the children with liquid zeolite, do you exclusively treat the children with liquid zeolite, or continue to use other protocol?
Dr. Prociuk - Do I continue to use other elements of the DAN protocol and dietary supplementation? The answer is definitely yes.
Liquid zeolite is simply the detoxification end of it. These kids all still need nutritional supplementation according to their particular metabolic imbalances, and the dietary modifications, which are appropriate for each child. Those are maintained and are an essential part of the treatment.
Dr. Rau - When we chelate with other agents- DMPS or EDTA, I follow the metals... do you have a way to do that with liquid zeolite?
Dr. Prociuk - Yes... I have hair and urine results pending. Some DAM doctors monitor that very frequently. That's not my practice. I'll have a specimen every 2 or 3 months. I can't tell you the results yet. Clinical results interest me most. They are very satisfying, and I don't have any doubt that there is a shedding of heavy metals or whatever toxins are affecting the child.
You may be aware of Dr. Flowers' work at Eno Research & Development lab, where he documented heavy mental excretion studies in a group of coal miners, and also in 2 groups healthy men. That occurred within a very short time following liquid zeolite administration. Urinary excretion of heavy metals has definitely been established already.
Marcy - They did a very thorough test-all results were amazing using high tech stuff like gas-chromatography-mass spectroscopy as well as hair, urine and saliva analysis....
Dr. Prociuk - He demonstrated that all the heavy metals were excreted, not just mercury or lead. Dr. Flower's research showed an increased simultaneous excretion of a full spectrum of heavy metals. That was very clear and very dramatic.
Dr. Rau - I find a number of children have high titers of viruses-rubella, cytomegalovirus... Do you think the detoxification also effects viruses?
Dr. Prociuk - I have one case, which directly pertains to that. A young girl came to me in December. She had deteriorated dramatically after an MMR booster in August of 2005. Her history was that at the age of her original injury was at about 18 months, after her first MMR, she was devastated, made a complete recovery, and for some reason and at the age of 5 the lunatic pediatrician gave her another booster, and she completely fell apart. Heavy metals are hard to assess. Her urine and hair analysis didn't show metals, but her titer of rubella was many times higher than normal. It seemed to me pretty clear to me. I think she was affected by the biologic injury of that vaccine.
She had incredible hyperactivity - she was constantly in motion and babbling away. She simply wouldn't stop moving for one millisecond. It was truly astonishing.
Within about 2 weeks of the liquid zeolite she began to settle down. She went through a detox. Her detox was abrupt vomiting. She'd be going along and all of the sudden vomit, and then she was fine. Then she'd vomit some more, then she'd be fine. That happened about 4 or 5 times over about a one-week period. After that there were noticeable improvements in her hyperactivity.
I saw her in follow up last week. Her mother was in the bathroom, and this child was sitting in my waiting room reading a book. That was 2 months after being on liquid zeolite, and the change was absolutely extraordinary. I can't prove it, but that's empiric evidence to me that the liquid zeolite can deal with the biologic injury of these vaccines as well. Obviously that's a small number of cases, but nonetheless very dramatic...
Marcy - The most important study is what you do yourself at home. Do your own study - take the product home and see what it does for you and your family. We're working with many wonderful doctors who are led to what we have because of their genuine concern for the children... I have somebody else I'd like to invite to ask a question. Denise runs a big rehab clinic for spectrum disorders for kids. Her clinic is called Excel, and she's very interested... in what you have to say.
Denise - What if the child is taking other meds, like seizure medication or something like that? Would it impact the dosage level of the other meds? The other question: Looking at the structure of the molecule, they refer to the honeycomb... if those are carbon molecules, I though that could only bond 4 times, and it seems like there's a bond of 5. What creates the stability of the structure?
Dr. Prociuk - Regarding medications, I asked this question to the chairman of the scientific advisory board, Rik Deitsch. He said the 2 drug counter-indications to liquid zeolite are lithium - a metal, which will be bound by liquid zeolite, and the chemotherapy agents carboplatin and cisplatin. Both contain platinum... The recommendation is that approximately 12 hours before receiving those drugs, and for 24 hours after, liquid zeolite not be given. All other drugs carry a neutral or slightly negative charge, and for that reason they have no particular affinity for the liquid zeolite, so it will not interfere.
I've used it with my adult patients on thyroid and heart medications, and have seen no evidence at all that it interferes with those drugs... The circulatory life of the liquid zeolite in the body is 4 to 6 hours. It doesn't store, it doesn't metabolize at all, and is completely eliminated.
There are no long-term issues with liquid zeolite whatsoever. It's extraordinarily safe.
Regarding the second question, I'm a little out of my league. I'm not a molecular physicist. Dr. Flowers gave all the molecular info at the conference. As I understand it, part of the absorptive part of the molecule is the honeycomb. It's within the honeycomb that this negative charge exists. The 4 carbon square, I'm not sure.
Marcy - I have somebody here who has the answer to that question. My husband Chip has been working with Rik and may have the answer to that question.
Chip Littlejohn - Zeolite is a mineral, not an organic substance. If you look at the patent, or if you're just now getting the power point by Dr. Flowers, he has a beautiful diagram there of the molecules hooked together to each other to form this labyrinth. It's comprised of silicone, magnesium, and - don't bail out on me with shock now - aluminum.
Remember, it was born in a volcano and it takes a volcano to break the molecule again. It's extremely stable. Though aluminum is part of the molecule the aluminum stays in the molecule, and it will pick up, trap, and transport free aluminum and other toxic substances out of the body. You go right down through the chain of heavy metals. It will become clear to you as you read the material, and especially when you see the honeycomb build in the power point from Dr. Flowers.
Dr. Prociuk - What Chip alluded to... You have to heat the molecule to 900 degrees Fahrenheit before it will break apart. This makes the molecule extremely safe and stable... It won't open up within the body and release the toxins unless you jump into a lava bath yourself.
Marcy - All the pollutants, which are naturally in clinoptilolite, have been removed from the product before it comes to our people. So we're sending it into the body hungry so it can remove the pollutants.
Denise - Is it OK to recommend this product to patients who are not seeing a homeopathic physician at the same time?
Marcy - I'm not a physician, but the list of children I've helped with product is growing dramatically. It does not have to be promoted by a physician. It's great when a physician uses this product.
Dr. Prociuk - I would agree with Marcy. With patients that are essentially stable, you can recommend liquid zeolite without a physician being involved. Start at a low dose, and caution the parents to increase it gradually. You've got this tremendous safety profile going for you. As long as you start low and go slow, you won't have any difficulty. If I were a parent of an autistic child, I'd have my child on it, whether my child was seeing a physician or not.
Question - What dosage would you recommend for a 14 month old with an undiagnosed neurological problem?
Dr. Prociuk - In terms of dose, I might start as low as 1 drop 3x/day, and slowly work up to a maximum of maybe 5 drops 3x/day. I treated a lady in her third trimester-I mentioned this in the call we had last week. In her second trimester she got a flu vaccine that had 25 mg of Thimerosal in it. After the vaccine she noticed a decrease in the number of fetal movements. I put her on 10 drops of liquid zeolite 3 times a day. She definitely detoxed. She had heat flushes and reactions going on. Her urine was kind of putrid for a week or so. After that was all over, the fetal movements definitely increased. I feel confident the development of that child is on a different trajectory now. In terms of safety I'm confident enough in the safety profile of this product to have given it to a pregnant woman without any concern.
Question - We have a girl with Aspergers. Her current medication is [...] Shall we try liquid zeolite?
Dr. Prociuk - Yes, you should try liquid zeolite. I would start with 5 drops, 3x/ and work up to 10 drops 3 times a day.
Question - Can you address liquid zeolite and it's benefits to candida, and ADD. Also does liquid zeolite help clean the body of recreational drugs?
Dr. Prociuk - I don't have any direct experience with recreational drugs. The answer to those kinds of questions - to the degree that toxicity to that substance is an issue, I do believe the liquid zeolite has a role in the recovery of that patient.
Marcy - I'd like you to describe the process of what won you over to liquid zeolite and our cause.
Dr. Prociuk - The main catalyst was my partner's mother. As a doctor, to see a stage 3-B, very advanced, very aggressive uterine cancer resolve - that completely blew my head. I'd never encountered anything like that. As I began to look more at the molecule, speak to the people involved, and understand the quality of the company and the people involved, I couldn't ignore it. As my involvement has deepened, the level of my satisfaction and delight in seeing the results and using the product has progressively increased. I think that this company is fresh, young, vibrant, and the intent of everybody that I'm in contact with, including the co-owners, the scientific advisory board, my upline, provides an absolutely unprecedented opportunity to do something really wonderful.
Marcy - If there's one thing you did not get to say on the call... what do you think that question would be, and what's the answer?
Dr. Prociuk - From a broad birds'eye perspective, this product is of such an extraordinary nature, that I truly believe it will be a catalyst that will change the entire paradigm of clinical medicine. Currently we're locked into a disease classification kind of paradigm. In fact that's kind of arbitrary and man made and probably doesn't have much relationship to real world.
The realities of disease are there are genetic susceptibilities or predispositions, and there are environmental stresses including physical toxins that we're exposed to. It's the combination of these susceptibilities and the environmental stressors that produce the various conditions that we call diseases.
The whole paradigm of clinical medicine, I believe, is going to shift, more to understanding what can we do to remove the stressors, because that will allow the natural capacity of the body to become liberated and do what it knows how to do. We have in our hands a product which is absolutely remarkable in it's power to do that. I think that the opportunity to participate in this whole shift is truly extraordinary. It's certainly something I want to be part of.